Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus YeeSophie on her first day at school in Singapore (Courtesy S. Couchman)Nikolaus with his Dad in Melbourne (Courtesy N. Yee)Marie, Paula, Sophie, Peter, Terry
In this episode you have an opportunity to meet Nik. Nikolaus Yee is my nephew and has helped edit and bring this podcast series to fruition. Nik’s father was born in Myanmar to Chinese parents and he came to Australia in the early 1980s. In creating ‘Chinese Australian Whispers’ Nik and I listened to all the interviews and oral histories. We found we had a few things we wanted to say about them too!
Further reading:
Oral History Australia and its state and territory branches supports those creating oral histories.
This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.
This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.
Sophie Couchman and Peter Liefman, 2024William Sang Fong, 2010 (MCAH)Sang Goon & Co stencil (Coffs Harbour Regional Museum)Tim Young & Co stencil (Coffs Harbour Regional Museum)
Bananas are, and were, big business but also dangerous. They were integral to the family fortunes of Peter and William.
In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Peter Liefman, whose grandfather was a large wholesale banana merchant with connections to lawyer William Ah Ket. We discuss an oral history recording with William Sang Fong who worked in the fruit and vegetable wholesaling business with his father.
Tim Young & Co banana stores 247-249 Franklin Street Melbourne (copyright held by Leong family)William ‘Bill’ Fong, Wholesale Fruit Merchants’ Association, 1934 (Melbourne Markets)Sang Goon & Co letterhead, 1934 (NAA)William and Ivy Fong, 1913 (Courtesy P. Liefman)
‘Banana industry‘, Chinese Australian Historical Images in Australia website (archived), further resources about Chinese and the banana industry.
‘Fruit and vegetable industry‘, Chinese Australian Historical Images in Australia website (archived), further resources about Chinese Australians and the fruit and vegetable industry.
This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.
This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.
Sophie Couchman and Paula HerlihyFay Anderson, 2010 (MCAH)Frederick William Tucker (born Frederick William Ah Kew), c1887 (Courtesy P. Herlihy)F.S. (Frank Shum) Goon, undated (MCAH, F. Anderson collection)
Music, war and broken families both feature in Paula and Fay’s family histories but the thing that connects them most of all is a town. Ballarat.
In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Paula Herlihy, whose grandfather was adopted when her great grandfather left her great grandmother with a large family to raise. We discuss an oral history recording with Fay Anderson whose grandfather was a prominent Ballarat herbalist, F.S. Goon, who later settled in Hong Kong.
Ada Elizabeth Goon (nee Mahlook), late 1930s (MCAH, F. Anderson collection)Hartpury Court, Elwood, 2024King Yin Lei, Hong KongFrederick Tucker during WWII (Courtesy Paula Herlihy)
‘Medicine – Traditional Chinese‘, Chinese Australian Historical Images in Australia (archived), further reading and resources about Chinese herbalists.
This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.
This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.
Sophie Couchman and Marie Hammond, 2024Wally Kwan, 2011 (MCAH)George Woon, undated (Courtesy M. Hammond)Kwong family rural general store network (Golden Threads)
Rural Australia, family businesses and rebellion connect Marie and Wally’s families but there is much that is different about their families’ experiences too.
In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Marie Hammond, whose father worked as a market gardener, cabinetmaker and finally ran a general store in Red Cliffs (Vic). We discuss an oral history recording with Wally Kwan whose father ran a general store in Stanthorpe (Qld) which was part of the large Kwong Sing & Co network of rural stores.
‘Storekeeping‘, Chinese Australian Historical Images in Australia (archived), further resources about Chinese Australians and storekeeping.
‘Furniture making industry‘, Chinese Australian Historical Images in Australia (archived), further resources about Chinese Australians and the furniture making industry.
This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.
This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.
Dr Sophie Couchman and Terry Young, 2024Alex Woon, 2011 (MCAH)Terry Young, 1959 (Courtesy T. Young)Alex Woon enlistment photograph, c1938 (NAA)
Market gardens, hawkers and the Queen Vic Market connect two Chinese Australian families in Coburg in Melbourne, Australia and Wonggaili, Xinhui, Guangdong (旺嘉里, 新会, 广东) in southern China.
In this episode Sophie speaks with family historian Terry Young, whose grandfather was a market gardener and his father a worked at the Queen Victoria Markets. We discuss an oral history recording with Alex Woon whose father, Alexander Ah Woon, also worked in the Queen Victoria Markets.
Alexander Woon, undated (Courtesy B. de Silva)Kongmoon area, 1940s William Ah Young and his brother Wah Lok, c1925 (Courtesy T. Young)Alexander Woon’s name seals (Courtesy B. de Silva)
‘Fruit and vegetable industry‘, Chinese Australian Historical Images in Australia (archived), further resources on Chinese Australians and the fruit and vegetable industry.
‘Hawking‘, Chinese Australian Historical Images in Australia (archived), further resources on Chinese Australians and street hawking.
This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.
This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.
Episode 0: Dr Sophie Couchman introduces ‘Chinese Australian Whispers’ – what it is, why was it made and why is it called ‘Chinese Australian Whispers’? (7.03 minutes)
‘Chinese Australian Whispers’ is about oral histories and researching your Chinese Australian family. It explores how memories and stories pass through the generations and the gaps and distortions that are created over time as a result. This podcast was born of the idea that there is much of value in oral history recordings for family historians, in particular those with Chinese ancestry.
Join Professional Historian and Curator Dr Sophie Couchman as she speaks with four members of CAFHOV (Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria): Terry Young, Marie Hammond, Paula Herlihy and Peter Liefman. Each CAFHOV member selected and listened to an oral history recorded by Sophie for the Museum of Chinese Australian history in 2010-11. We then recorded a discussion about the oral history.
Each podcast episode weaves together the family history of the CAFHOV member, the oral history interview and also what made listening to the oral history special. In the process we explore the complexities of an Australian identity.
The full podcast will be launched on Tuesday, 4 March 2025 at the Chinese Museum. You will be able to listen to all the episodes here on this website or via your favorite podcasting app (eg. Apple podcasts, Spotify, Castbox, Podbean).
00:00:30 Sophie Hello. Chinese Australian Whispers is about the value of oral history recordings for family historians. 00:00:37 Sophie It’s about how memories and stories pass through the generations and the gaps and the distortions that are created as a result over time. 00:00:47 Sophie My name is Doctor Sophie Couchman and I’m a professional historian and curator. 00:00:52 Sophie I recorded my first oral history interview with Marjorie Law back in 1990. 00:00:57 Sophie One many others have followed, and these have joined more than 300 oral histories recorded with Australians that have Chinese ancestry in public collections around Australia. 00:01:10 Sophie However, while the number of these recordings have been growing, I’ve not seen them widely used or known about. Through my involvement in the Chinese Australian Family 00:01:20 Sophie Historians of Victoria, CAFHOV for short, 00:01:23 Sophie I could see that oral histories had the potential to be of great value for family historians. 00:01:30 Sophie This podcast explores what that value might be. 00:01:35 Sophie Four members of CAFOV, Terry Young, Marie Hammond, Paula Herlihy and Peter Liefman volunteered to select an oral history I had recorded back in 2010 and 2011. 00:01:50 Sophie We then recorded a discussion about that oral history recording and its value to their family history research. 00:01:58 Sophie This then became the basis of each episode of the podcast. 00:02:03 Sophie Each person brought their own approach to this task. 00:02:07 Sophie Most didn’t get what they initially thought they would out of listening to the oral history, but all gained something from the experience. 00:02:26 Sophie The podcasts title – 00:02:27 Sophie Chinese 00:02:28 Sophie Australian Whispers – is a play on a children’s game which in the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand is called ‘Chinese Whispers’. In the game a message is whispered from child to child, distorting as its misheard 00:02:43 Sophie along the way. It’s an ancient game with a history dating waaay back to at least Medici’s Italy. 00:02:52 Sophie It’s gone by many names over time. 00:02:55 Sophie In Australia in the early 1860s, it was initially called ‘Russian Scandal’. 00:03:01 Sophie Then, by the turn of the century, it was known as ‘Russian Gossip’ and eventually sometime in the mid 20th century it became popularly known as ‘Chinese Whispers’. 00:03:14 Sophie We don’t know why this racialised language was used for the game. 00:03:18 Sophie It appears to be a popular response to tensions between the British Empire and the Russian, and then Chinese empires. 00:03:26 Sophie Through its title, the game depicts these empires as untrustworthy and draws on the perceived inscrutability of their language and culture today. 00:03:37 Sophie It’s less offensive to call the game by one of its alternative names: ‘Broken 00:03:41 Sophie Telephone’, ‘Gossip’ or ‘Rumours’. 00:03:45 Sophie Now, while this phrase clearly has racist undertones, I really wanted to reclaim it for this podcast. 00:03:53 Sophie As a metaphor, it beautifully encapsulates the complex processes whereby people’s family history is selectively passed down through the generations, changing as its told, heard and retold. 00:04:09 Sophie It’s also a poignant illustration of how the recording of memories in oral histories is a mediated process shaped by the kinds of questions asked by the interviewer, 00:04:20 Sophie the willingness and ability of the interviewee to answer them, and then how they’re eventually interpreted by the listener. 00:04:39 Sophie Chinese 00:04:39 Sophie Australian Whispers has 6 episodes: 4 feature members of the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria discussing an oral history recording. 00:04:50 Sophie The last two are slightly different. 00:04:52 Sophie One’s an interview with composer and musician Wang Zheng-Ting. 00:04:56 Sophie Ting discusses the music he composed specially for the podcast and how being Chinese Australian has shaped his musical practise. 00:05:06 Sophie The final episode in the podcast is a discussion between myself and Nikolaus Yee. 00:05:12 Sophie Nik helped me bring this podcast series together and we found that in the process of doing this, we were having conversations about the issues it raised that we also wanted to share with you. 00:05:24 Sophie Now that we’ve finished, we’re really looking forward to hearing about what you, our listeners, gain from listening to the podcast and the ideas it raises. 00:05:32 Sophie We also hope that Chinese Australian Whispers encourages you to have a listen to some of the many oral histories that are out there. 00:05:41 Sophie Check our show notes for a list of oral histories with Australians with Chinese ancestry in public collections. 00:05:48 Sophie And please do share a link to the podcast if you think others will enjoy it. 00:05:54 Sophie I’m looking forward to having you join me in our first episode where we will meet Terry Young, who listened to an interview I recorded with Alex Woon. 00:06:04 Sophie Amongst other things, we discuss Chinese market gardens and the Queen Victoria market. 00:06:11 Sophie This podcast was created and produced by Doctor Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee in partnership with the Museum of Chinese Australian History and the Chinese Australian Family 00:06:21 Sophie Historians of Victoria. Music was composed and performed by Wang Zheng-Ting. 00:06:27 Sophie And finally, we would like to gratefully acknowledge the Local History Grants Programme and the Public Records Office of Victoria, which are supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.
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This episode was created with in-kind support from the Museum of Chinese Australian History, the Chinese Australian Family Historians of Victoria, Dr Sophie Couchman and Nikolaus Yee.
This project gratefully acknowledges the Local History Grants Program and Public Record Office Victoria, supported by the Victorian Government through the Community Support Fund.
Sophie Couchman 
